Demographic questions and confirmation of consent.
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TA: Okay, thank you.  Can you tell me about the context that you've used e-learning?  Were you directed to use it and why was it that you came to use e-learning?

P10: So, do you mean most recently, or historically?

TA: It could be historically or recently, any of your experience of using it.

P10: My first experiences probably were about 10 years ago in my last role, when we did all our in-house training basically on e-learning, all our mandatory training. I don't know the exact time, but I would say it feels like it must have been about a good ten years, ago.

TA: Okay.

P10: There's also when I did my [academic programme], some of that was was e-learning. I've done some CPD e-learning when I got a leadership role. When I became the ward manager I did some e-learning management training. And then, when I came to the university there's quite a bit of e-learning mandatory modules and I'm currently doing my [academic programme]. A lot of that is e-learning. I think it feels like it's probably quite a lot there. It varies. They are quite varied experiences from mandatory to more role specific.

TA: Yeah. It sounds like some of that role specific you've gone off and found yourself.

P10: Yes, so a lot of it, I've joined a couple of networks and sometimes they advertise free online which is what's good for your revalidation and things like that.

TA: Okay. My next question is have you ever heard the term open education resources before, or if not what would you call Internet based learning? 

P10: I feel I've heard the term open but maybe not in a context of anything that I've been involved in. Maybe I have, but heard it maybe in a different frame. Whether or not I would be able to actually describe or say exactly what it is, I don't know.  

TA: So, what would you call Internet based learning.  What would be the language you would use for Internet based learning that you've done?

P10: I would just say online. I would just say I’m doing an online course. It's online study. I generalise from online meetings, to online studies, to online research. I just say online.

TA: Okay, that's what most people seem to use. Maybe you could just start by telling me a little bit about your experiences, something that comes to mind from when you've used online learning?

P10: I would say it's something that gets better with experience. I really do remember that turning point from when it almost appeared that a good percentage of training or additional CPD opportunities switched to being online. I mean, way before COVID it just seemed to be that it was a way of getting as many people as possible for a lower cost to be involved in a body of knowledge. Specifically, my first experiences were mandatory training. I know it was a very unpopular decision within the workforce. I think I was a bit ambiguous with it really.  I didn't mind either way as such for some training, I think a lot of people just see it as a process more, I've just got to get out the way and do, whereas, if you're in a room with a person you get to engage and you almost might make a person engage with you, not make them, but. I think online my first thoughts about it were that it was it was not popular and it did take a little bit of time to kind of get the hang of finding your way around and managing to do it in your own time. They said to do it at work but trying to get a computer or a place, or a space somewhere, so I think a lot of people ended up doing it at home in their own time.

TA: Okay. You said a couple of times about it being unpopular. Did you want to just tell me any more about that?

P10: Yes. I think it was probably partly around the provision of access to a computer to use. I think a lot of people were resentful of having to just use their own computers, although you know there was the option of either claiming the time back or putting the hours in as overtime. It's still seen as an unpopular choice to have to do it in their perceived own time, although they were getting that time either paid for or back. I think people also found, even with worse IT skills than me, it quite difficult to navigate. Whether this is relevant or not I remember there were a lot of password problems for the people that were actually setting up. There were quite a few teething problems of making sure everybody could log in and have access and I think people lost passwords and all sorts of things. From that perspective, that was not very popular because people probably thought to themselves, right, ‘okay, I'm going to do it at this point’ and then they couldn't for various reasons. It's not as straightforward as just turning up on the day for a because you actually have to put a bit more effort because you've got to log in and be there ready. In a way you’re more responsible for your learning, rather than actually just turning up on a given day in a room full of your colleagues.

TA: Okay. You mentioned about engaging with people if you're in a face to face situation. If you're thinking about the e-learning that you've done, have you got any kind of thoughts or feelings or experiences around engagement within any e-learning context? 

P10: I think it's really difficult to feel engaged on a personal level with it. From the training perspective it seems to be no engaging at all. It's just a question of reading materials and answering questions, very much like what we do now. It doesn't seem to have really evolved in the 10 odd years I've been doing different ones. It seems to be the very same pattern. Some of the other online courses that are not training, so I suppose are not mandatory courses, that I've done, they are sometimes a mixture. You do sometimes have a mixture of reading and quizzes, information, and then you might have a short talk. A couple of things that I've been involved with do breakout rooms, so you might engage for a short amount of time, regarding one topic, to discuss or something. But I don't think the engagement with those, I think it always feels a little bit awkward because you suddenly, you don't really meet the people like you would do if you were face to face and make small talk. You’re suddenly online with people and you're asked to ask a question and nobody really knows who to speak or who's going to be the spokesperson, or who should speak first. I think the engagement, in my experience, is really quite lacking. It does severely lack, so you can feel quite solitary, although I'm personally not concerned, I don't mind that. I quite like solitary studying, if that makes sense. But I do also see at times there's a benefit for feeling like you are within a group of learners.

TA: Yeah. With your online CPD stuff that you did, was that clinical?

P10: Yes. 

TA: So did you ever share that at all? Did you ever share that with any colleagues or anything? How did you manage the learning from it?  

P10: It was very much encouraged that if you were going to any, whether it be online or in person training courses, that you would arrange to do feedback sessions to staff. We had a weekly session which any member of staff could book, to present. To be truthful there was a kind of almost expectation, especially if it was a paid CPD or other event you were going to. It was very much encouraged that you would use, it was justified more because you would be then sharing it with your peers and colleagues. It was shared in a face to face scenario, in a group. I would say it’s still quite  informal but it was very much peer sharing. If not, it might be an e-mail of bullet points to send to various people. I’d perhaps say these were my top learning points for that session, whatever it was. It was encouraged definitely from where I worked to share what you learned. Certainly when I did my leadership modules, there wasn't necessarily a need from that because that was more just for my benefit, for my role. But everything else, there's been an encouragement to share.

TA: Yes. You talked about some of that being paid. Did you get funded for your leadership things as well, or did you have to that yourself?

P10: Yes. I’m just trying to think back to all my online things I've ever done. Yes, they've been paid. I've not had to. I paid for some actual in person things, a couple of things I wanted to do, but my actual online things that I did, they were. I think the leadership one was quite a lot of money because it was, not a qualification, but it was a recognised thing to do, but I didn't have to pay for that.  No.

TA: Okay. You said really early on about doing things at home and in your own time. Did you want to just talk to me a little bit more about that?

P10: Yes, so more recently I can think about that in relation to the [academic programme] that I'm doing. That actually is all online and all self managed. Everything is asynchronous, so all of the materials are there and there is a recommended structure to how much you do each week. You have to attend a couple of tutorials but they're not really mandatory if that makes sense. You could basically do the whole thing without really meeting face to face with anybody. 

TA: Okay. So, have you done much CPD, or online learning or mandatory learning in your own time, or have you not really needed to?

P10: There's probably a bit, because I've always been quite interested in just constantly having something that I'm looking into extra studying or something to top up, and so some things probably might have been slightly out of the scope of my previous roles but there wasn't an expectation, that was a personal choice to do that.

TA: Okay. You just talked about then about the relevance to your role. Have you ever been given learning or allocated learning by your employers or whoever, in the past, and what do you think about the relevance of all the learning that you've had to do? Is there anything there, you'd like to raise?

P10: I think the vast majority of, I'm struggling to think of anything that probably hasn't been relevant. This sounds like an off the cuff comment but I do mean this, sometimes, at the time, you question the relevance for some things, just because when it's perhaps more the training side, you perhaps don't feel as engaged or as motivated. But you can always look back on it and think, ohh yeah, I had that training so yes, now I know I've got to do x, y, z because of what I went through. I can't think of anything that hasn't been of relevance.

TA: Okay. Thank you. You talk about motivation so maybe you just want to talk to me a little bit about how you motivate yourself for the online learning, whether that's CPD or mandatory, and then when you go into the system, how do you actually work through the learning? Do you have a method or a strategy you might want to talk about?

P10: Okay, my motivation varies. When you have got mandatory things to do I wouldn't exactly say I’ve felt motivated to do it, more just that you get a time frame so you know you have to do it. But I don't really call that motivation. You just know you’ve got to do it in that time so you kind of do it. I've felt motivated to do other. I was motivated to do the leadership thing. I recognised that I had a lot to learn. That was actually during COVID so it was quite accepted it was going to be online and like I said, I was quite motivated to have something different to do to be truthful. I did my [academic programme] as well as working and all that. I think I'm quite motivated to do study. My methods probably aren't things I would necessarily encourage as good for people if that make sense. I have a family. I work, so my methods are things like CPD and certainly my [academic programme] at the moment are late nights, early mornings, in between lunch times and things like that. On reflection I wouldn't encourage my students to, I'm not kind of practice what you preach kind of person, but I've always managed to do things in the past in my kind of unique way and I've always got through it so I know that that works for me. Going back to motivation, the [academic programme] that I'm doing at the moment, that has been the hardest thing for me to feel on top of and motivated, mainly because of starting at [workplace] in September, so adjusting to a new job. It's the first time I've done, I’ve already done lots of bits of online learning but it's the first time I've done a whole course solely. This is almost like a year's worth of work which is all solely online. The motivation is, I'm motivated to do it but it still feels like it's a struggle because there's something that's expected of you each week. I suppose part of my previous studies, traits, have had to go a bit out the window because I've felt quite pressured because you're trying to do it alongside your work and alongside your family and all things like that. But this would be my argument for having this all online, because I think if you have once a week, two hours that you attended, you know have to do it on that time. This is probably the first experience where I perhaps got mixed feelings about this being solely online and feeling quite isolated. Luckily there are quite a few colleagues doing it so we chat about it, but still I feel really like it's very much my own journey on it.  

TA: Yeah. 

P10: Definitely I have the motivation but it's quite difficult to spend the time it deserves on it. But then, because you don't have somebody, how much time you spend on it is only going to ever reflect your mark you get, by obviously how much work you put into your assignment, how much time you actually go through the materials and spend on each of the suggested activities each week. It's just purely up to yourself really how much you invest if that makes sense.  

TA: Yeah. That does make sense. You were almost balancing that just now against feeling pressured because of having weekly deadlines or tasks. Do you want to say a little bit more about that?

P10: Yeah, I'm on the first, there are 3 units in it. I'm on my first unit and it's broken down into 8 weeks, then each week there is the topic then there's various different things to read, and then there's suggested activities to complete in that week. I initially did get behind in it, not planned but I just didn't have the time. It started when I was [academic role] and so I just felt I started a bit out of sync. I feel I've caught up okay now but I think because I knew it was there but I just couldn't get to it, if that makes sense. I felt that it was a bit pressured to do it but that's just about time management but then sometimes with this role your time management skills don't really. Even if you've got really good time management skills, which I thought I had, this has made me doubt my time management skills. Even though I thought historically my time management been okay I've been, this course has made me doubt that a bit. I don't know whether it's partly because it’s all solely online and there's still quite a lot of content. Maybe that is why I'm struggling, a bit with the time management. 

TA: Yeah. That implies that there's a need for evidence of completing this programme for you.  I don't know if you've got any thoughts about that and some of the other mandatory training and things as well.  Has there been a case of needing to provide evidence of doing this training?

P10: Yeah, the mandatory training, it normally produces a certificate for you. And we love our certificates, don't we, in nursing, for our folders and our revalidation. We provide, normally on completion it generates a certificate or some of the other CPD things once you've attended. Rightly they don't issue the certificate until they know that you've attended the whole session, or sessions. So you do get some evidence which is good for us as well. There is a use for that and obviously for line management as well. I think there are some things that haven't needed evidence that you that you participated in, and I suppose the only evidence is what you gained from it and what you do with it, but there's been perhaps no other forms of evidence. With what I'm doing now the evidence will be in the submission of the assignments. We've not had to actually provide evidence of the activities that we're doing and that's something that does feel sometimes a bit strange because I know I need to definitely do them, but then when you know no one's going to know if you're going to be doing it and I genuinely am an honest study person. I don't want to be saying I'm not but do you know what I mean?  It comes in your mind. You're a bit like well, no one knows I'm doing this, so you start to question. There is a bit of a self-questioning which I think is obviously something that solely happens with online work. If you're face to face then any self doubt or any kind of questions around your own input aren't the same at all. 

TA: Yeah. So, building on that and obviously the way that you approached the study materials, how would you work through those materials generally?

P10: I think it's one of those things where you know I normally, because quite often they say this should take you approximately an hour or whatever. I would think to myself well, I know that I need to allocate myself the time that it is telling me to do. I think you have to. I think sometimes it's worth because just because you're in your own home or you are under your own time, there's no good stopping and going to do other things. You have to make sure you're there. I have, I honestly can't remember what it was but I remember doing something and getting so far, and then I think I might have gone to do something, because something happened and it then logged me out so lost everything I did. So, I've learned that yes, you log in, you work out how long it's going to do, and then you'll stay there and you just work your way through it. Some things say stop and save if they're longer, which is quite helpful, and then you log back in and you can go to your saved work, but generally speaking I think you just plough through, you know, plough through it in one go, with your allocated time. 

TA: And in a logical order?  

P10: That that definitely makes sense doing it as it's presented to you because I presume that it's in an order that makes sense. Things are built up on, if you've completed one part that helps feed the next part that you're doing. Some modules I've done where you literally, it didn't particularly matter and you could stop and save, and as long as you completed all six it didn't really particularly matter what way round you did those, but I don't think that's very common. Generally, it seems to be that it's a logical flow of completing which obviously helps you. Certainly I think from an assessment point of view that probably is a favourable way of doing it. I think gaining the content in a more interactive manner is good, but I think doing your kind of assessment and ongoing work with it, doing it online in your own time, there's a benefit to that probably.

TA: Yes. So, that one that you lost where it logged you out. What happened there?

P10: I just had to start it again and I had to apply for another login. I don't think it was a password. You got a link or something which you had to go into. I honestly don't know whether I had it, that my computer just decided to do a restart and I hadn't clocked that. Sometimes it gives you a 10 minute warning doesn't it. I think I might have just clicked off it, not reading it, and then my computer did a restart and then when I'd gone in it was no longer, my link was no longer valid. I had to e-mail and get another link and that was quite frustrating, but I learned a lesson that you watch out for those boxes when they come on your computer. 

TA: Thank you. So, have you used any of your online learning as part of your CPD evidence for the NMC at all? 

P10: Yes. Some of them are just certificates that I've submitted for the hours evidence. 

TA: I don't know what your thoughts are about how we submit our evidence of online learning for the NMC, but?

P10: It's probably not as robust as it could be. I think we probably all do a lot more than we could actually probably evidence, that we do online. It can be so varied, from listening, watching a YouTube or a TED talk. Whether or not we capture that, I suppose the NMC allows us to put just, we don't have to evidence everything we put on there, do we. We can put that we watched TED talk, I attended this, or whatever. It would only be if we happen to be called up I suppose, they might want us to evidence more.

TA: No. I just wondered if you have got anything else that you'd like to tell me about your experiences or your thoughts of online learning, that just come to you, in summary?

P10: I would say it is quite varied and I do sometimes wonder how regulated some of that, maybe some of the stuff that we do engage in is the standard and the level worthy for us to be using it as CPD. It does sometimes feel like there's perhaps quite a varied quality and I don't know enough about it to know whether or not everything has to go through some sort of standard testing. I think it was varied and certainly online learning definitely does rely on the participant being quite, not strict with themselves but organised, motivated. There definitely has to be a level of self-motivation and I think you get out as much as you put in. 

TA: Yeah. Where you just said about the standard and the level of the regulation how would you base your judgement if you were looking at the online learning? It sounds like you've been thinking as you've engaged.  

P10: I look at who's perhaps presenting it, or perhaps who some of the sponsors are. For some of the things I've been on, role or perhaps more specialty specific, for example things that were put on by like [National charity name] you would be thinking that's our main [clinical speciality] sort of regular body. You think well that's obviously good, but I suppose some of them that are perhaps sponsored or put on by just a very small. There was one, I probably shouldn’t name them, but where I live there was a small group of nursing homes and sometimes they would put on things and I would sometimes wonder whether that's more a money making thing, because actually they're less, what is their evidence base, because it's much smaller. I don’t know if that really makes any kind of sense at all. I plan to a certain degree, check a bit about what you're attending based on who's putting it on, are they open about their sources? Have they got a good evidence base behind them? Are they open about other regulatory bodies that might be monitoring because obviously a lot of the stuff with nurses it will say things like endorsed by the RCN or NMC, so obviously you just know straight away that will be good. Where did you see them advertised. If you see things on your RCN letters and emails, and NMC emails and some of the other networks I joined, I trusted. But sometimes other things just crop up and I think I'm not quite sure about that. Ialways want to go for things that I felt I recognised or I'd heard about or had been advertised through a reliable source, definitely.

TA: Okay. Have you got any other comments to finish?

P10: No.

TA: Okay. Thank you. 


